Comments on: Garces In Bed With PLCB http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/ Your guide to food, drink and deals in Philadelphia Mon, 22 Mar 2010 01:30:39 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: rory http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60315 rory Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:18:28 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60315 wow...i didn't know one could name-drop that much in a comment thread on a food blog. and what does working in a restaurant have to do with having an opinion on which restaurants are the best to eat at? also LMAO @ your challenge. name twenty better except exclude two major categories of restaurants. none of this matters, it's just funny to me. wow…i didn’t know one could name-drop that much in a comment thread on a food blog. and what does working in a restaurant have to do with having an opinion on which restaurants are the best to eat at?

also LMAO @ your challenge. name twenty better except exclude two major categories of restaurants.

none of this matters, it’s just funny to me.

]]> By: cochinita http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60314 cochinita Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:36:51 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60314 I heard they are going to do amazing desserts...cheese too, and offer wine pairings. This seems like a good idea to me. Is it a take out or sit down place? Are they selling the desserts retail? I heard they are going to do amazing desserts…cheese too, and offer wine pairings. This seems like a good idea to me. Is it a take out or sit down place? Are they selling the desserts retail?

]]> By: Yuppie Eats Philly http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60308 Yuppie Eats Philly Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:01:37 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60308 My husband and i had a similar idea months ago. We want to open a coffee bar by day and a wine bar by night. But we realized this was a pipe-dream b/c of how strict the PLCB is. Now it looks more likely than ever that we'll be able to pull it off. My husband and i had a similar idea months ago. We want to open a coffee bar by day and a wine bar by night. But we realized this was a pipe-dream b/c of how strict the PLCB is. Now it looks more likely than ever that we’ll be able to pull it off.

]]> By: tj http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60301 tj Sun, 15 Mar 2009 04:51:04 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60301 Derby, most of your list is on point with the exception of the Starr places you mentioned. Food & service are THEE two most important determining factors of a quality dining experience. Food & service are not the focus of a Starr restaurant. His focus is the "scene", or whatever the trendy "vibe & attitude" are of the restaurants in LA, NY, or Tokyo, whose look & ideas he copied. Morimoto may be the one exception. Derby, most of your list is on point with the exception of the Starr places you mentioned. Food & service are THEE two most important determining factors of a quality dining experience. Food & service are not the focus of a Starr restaurant. His focus is the “scene”, or whatever the trendy “vibe & attitude” are of the restaurants in LA, NY, or Tokyo, whose look & ideas he copied. Morimoto may be the one exception.

]]> By: derbystinks http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60296 derbystinks Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:12:37 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60296 I will drop the PLCB talk because i agree with 99% of what everyone is saying. I just am surprised by the so called "news". we all hate the PLCB so lets move on As far as My Top ten (12?) rant lets discuss 1) I hate Philly Style Mag. The Publisher (J.C) Tried to punch me in a nightclub 7 years ago because i was quote " Bothering his girls" These "girls" were friends of mine for years before JC even knew them. He obviously has a Napoleon complex and i just walked away and promised myself never to read his magazine 2) to show you how much i dislike Philly Style. Whenever I was at an event that had the mag for free i would take the issues and throw them in the trash can. The people from PS actually laughed ( i guess they cant stand him either). Yes I know not really mature and probably offensive but what can i say 3 Corazon Tequilla shots bring out the worst in me 3) I saw Jc at The Oscar Party at Sofitel hotel. He doesnt recognize me after 7 years and i didnt bother him. I was approached by the Photographer from PM to be in a picture with my date. I respectfully declined telling him " Im sorry I really dont want to be one of "those people" and to boot i dont photograph well. In the best interest of a "classy" magazine such as PM It would be better that I was left out of the picture. he laughed and said I understand buddy "have a great time tonight" I could go on and on but my point has been made I dont read PM or Philadelphia Mag either. I go out to eat 4 times average a week and I worked at Panorama, Striped Bass (pre Starr), Rouge, Pasion, Commisary, Deux Chemines. How many people that blog or Yelp actually worked anywhere beyond a Marathon Grill??? Everyone has different opinion about the best places to eat. But seriously are any of the spots i mentioned NOT in everyones top 20??? name me 20 restaurant better than any of the 7 i mentioned. NOT BYOb Not le bec Fin stuffy places and not Ritz Cartlon type Hotels You cant do it Final note eating is more than food and service its about VIBE and ATTITUDE Case in point I ate the chefs tasting at Morimoto when Morimoto was actually there before The NY spot opened. It was 6 of us and he asked us what is the one thing you hate about Japanese cooking? We said " Sea Urchin". What do think was the 1st course that came out? Thats right Sea Urchin and it was incredible. That takes balls and that is what dining is all about. How many people out there commenting about what is good and not have had a more sublime experience than that?? Jose Garces has that type of gumption. Thats why i think he is at the top of Philly dining. If you take the top and bottom 20% of reviews verbal and blogged you get an accurate average. Take out the clueless and the people who are way too happy and you get a real feel for a place. In that respect It would be hard to find better places than I mentioned. Consistency is the key. The great places hit grand slams 9 out of 10 times and hit a homer once. The "good" places are 50/50. Thank you for your time I have to get ready for my reservation at Chifa I will drop the PLCB talk because i agree with 99% of what everyone is saying. I just am surprised by the so called “news”. we all hate the PLCB so lets move on

As far as My Top ten (12?) rant lets discuss
1) I hate Philly Style Mag. The Publisher (J.C) Tried to punch me in a nightclub 7 years ago because i was quote ” Bothering his girls” These “girls” were friends of mine for years before JC even knew them. He obviously has a Napoleon complex and i just walked away and promised myself never to read his magazine
2) to show you how much i dislike Philly Style. Whenever I was at an event that had the mag for free i would take the issues and throw them in the trash can. The people from PS actually laughed ( i guess they cant stand him either). Yes I know not really mature and probably offensive but what can i say 3 Corazon Tequilla shots bring out the worst in me
3) I saw Jc at The Oscar Party at Sofitel hotel. He doesnt recognize me after 7 years and i didnt bother him. I was approached by the Photographer from PM to be in a picture with my date. I respectfully declined telling him ” Im sorry I really dont want to be one of “those people” and to boot i dont photograph well. In the best interest of a “classy” magazine such as PM It would be better that I was left out of the picture. he laughed and said I understand buddy “have a great time tonight”

I could go on and on but my point has been made
I dont read PM or Philadelphia Mag either.

I go out to eat 4 times average a week and I worked at Panorama, Striped Bass (pre Starr), Rouge, Pasion, Commisary, Deux Chemines. How many people that blog or Yelp actually worked anywhere beyond a Marathon Grill???
Everyone has different opinion about the best places to eat. But seriously are any of the spots i mentioned NOT in everyones top 20???
name me 20 restaurant better than any of the 7 i mentioned. NOT BYOb Not le bec Fin stuffy places and not Ritz Cartlon type Hotels
You cant do it
Final note eating is more than food and service its about VIBE and ATTITUDE

Case in point I ate the chefs tasting at Morimoto when Morimoto was actually there before The NY spot opened. It was 6 of us and he asked us what is the one thing you hate about Japanese cooking? We said ” Sea Urchin”. What do think was the 1st course that came out? Thats right Sea Urchin and it was incredible. That takes balls and that is what dining is all about. How many people out there commenting about what is good and not have had a more sublime experience than that?? Jose Garces has that type of gumption. Thats why i think he is at the top of Philly dining.
If you take the top and bottom 20% of reviews verbal and blogged you get an accurate average. Take out the clueless and the people who are way too happy and you get a real feel for a place. In that respect It would be hard to find better places than I mentioned. Consistency is the key. The great places hit grand slams 9 out of 10 times and hit a homer once. The “good” places are 50/50.
Thank you for your time I have to get ready for my reservation at Chifa

]]> By: Marty B. http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60279 Marty B. Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:35:52 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60279 Derbystinks, no one's complaining about what you're calling the direct shippers license. If you actually read the thread, you'd realize that a lot of us are fans of some of those places. BUT none of those places were annointed by the PLCB to also allow carry out business as well. What your Antoinette-esque "at least I can eat cake" (new tagline for Philly Style?) outlook on this matter fails to see is the impact this will have on existing businesses. Direct shippers licenses are available to anyone willing to get them, by the law. The law in a state like PA might make running an alcohol related biz significantly harder than it is in NJ or DE; but all players in PA at least have a level playing field of rules they all must play under. Apparently unless your Jose Garces. That's not an experiment, that's arbitrary privilege. No state regulatory group in the country would be seen as engaging in fair practices if they picked one business owner to try out a new scheme. What's the right way to do it? Pick an area of your state, say Philadelphia since that seems to be the state's "foodie" HQ, and open up that micro-market of your state to the new rules for a five year period and see what happens. This is just rigging one arbitrarily (or perhaps influenced) chosen enterprise for success at the likely expense of others. It isn't hair splitting, but judging by your pedestrian top ten list of restaurants anything that isn't conveyed to you as a top ten slideshow over at Phillymag or wherever flies far over your head. Derbystinks, no one’s complaining about what you’re calling the direct shippers license. If you actually read the thread, you’d realize that a lot of us are fans of some of those places. BUT none of those places were annointed by the PLCB to also allow carry out business as well.

What your Antoinette-esque “at least I can eat cake” (new tagline for Philly Style?) outlook on this matter fails to see is the impact this will have on existing businesses. Direct shippers licenses are available to anyone willing to get them, by the law. The law in a state like PA might make running an alcohol related biz significantly harder than it is in NJ or DE; but all players in PA at least have a level playing field of rules they all must play under. Apparently unless your Jose Garces. That’s not an experiment, that’s arbitrary privilege. No state regulatory group in the country would be seen as engaging in fair practices if they picked one business owner to try out a new scheme. What’s the right way to do it? Pick an area of your state, say Philadelphia since that seems to be the state’s “foodie” HQ, and open up that micro-market of your state to the new rules for a five year period and see what happens. This is just rigging one arbitrarily (or perhaps influenced) chosen enterprise for success at the likely expense of others.

It isn’t hair splitting, but judging by your pedestrian top ten list of restaurants anything that isn’t conveyed to you as a top ten slideshow over at Phillymag or wherever flies far over your head.

]]> By: slowdown http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60275 slowdown Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:30:08 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60275 Well, Derbystinks, I think this would be a better conversation for another thread, but your top ten list is wrong. That's right, your personal opinion is factually flawed. Stop reading so much Philadelphia Style. Well, Derbystinks, I think this would be a better conversation for another thread, but your top ten list is wrong. That’s right, your personal opinion is factually flawed. Stop reading so much Philadelphia Style.

]]> By: derbystinks http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60274 derbystinks Fri, 13 Mar 2009 05:54:30 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60274 slowdown - Let me see what a non Garces- Starr stance would mean to my fat stomach and dining options. No BYOB spots and no high end Hotel places just for the sake of keeping it simple Amada/Tinto/Distrito/Chifa are 4 of the best restaurants in Philly. Period Buddakan/ Morimoto/ Barclay Prime I would have to say are also in my top 10 even though i dont care for Starr too much so Im left with Vetri. Ansill, Xochitil, N.3rd, James hmmmm as much as i love those places only Vetri could CONSISTENTLY displace my first 7. sorry im gonna stay fat and pass on your suggestion slowdown – Let me see what a non Garces- Starr stance would mean to my fat stomach and dining options.
No BYOB spots and no high end Hotel places just for the sake of keeping it simple

Amada/Tinto/Distrito/Chifa are 4 of the best restaurants in Philly. Period
Buddakan/ Morimoto/ Barclay Prime I would have to say are also in my top 10 even though i dont care for Starr too much
so Im left with Vetri. Ansill, Xochitil, N.3rd, James
hmmmm
as much as i love those places only Vetri could CONSISTENTLY displace my first 7.
sorry im gonna stay fat and pass on your suggestion

]]> By: derbystinks http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60273 derbystinks Fri, 13 Mar 2009 05:28:18 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60273 Ok so the big shocking news by recent posts is that the PLCB is A) clueless B) shady and performs illegal acts C makes up rules that suits itself d) a stingy monopoly Wait let me sit down because i have been living in a bubble for my 20 years in philly!!! Not really news here folks! There is all sorts of stories i can recall in the Inquirer about the ineptitude and down right mafia like attitude of the PLCB higher ups Folks this is (say it with me slowly now) A INDEPENDENT GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED AGENCY - just like Lew said on his link If it made sense it wouldnt be the PLCB Final note. There are a handful of restaurants that carry almost 100% exclusive wines that can NOT be bought at PLCB stores OR special ordered. It might be called a direct wine shipper license( I forget at the moment), you cant own said restaurant but you can get great wines for them that no one else has. Fork is one such place. most of their wine list is exclusive. I know a handful of other places in Philly that use this totally legal approach. Why Isn't anyone huffin and puffin about this (ITS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS). we are really splitting hairs between this years old practice and this latest PLCB deal. Props to Lew for wanting to abolish the PLCB. 100% agree Ok so the big shocking news by recent posts is that the PLCB is
A) clueless
B) shady and performs illegal acts
C makes up rules that suits itself
d) a stingy monopoly
Wait let me sit down because i have been living in a bubble for my 20 years in philly!!!
Not really news here folks!
There is all sorts of stories i can recall in the Inquirer about the ineptitude and down right mafia like attitude of the PLCB higher ups
Folks this is (say it with me slowly now) A INDEPENDENT GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED AGENCY – just like Lew said on his link
If it made sense it wouldnt be the PLCB

Final note. There are a handful of restaurants that carry almost 100% exclusive wines that can NOT be bought at PLCB stores OR special ordered. It might be called a direct wine shipper license( I forget at the moment), you cant own said restaurant but you can get great wines for them that no one else has. Fork is one such place. most of their wine list is exclusive. I know a handful of other places in Philly that use this totally legal approach. Why Isn’t anyone huffin and puffin about this (ITS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS). we are really splitting hairs between this years old practice and this latest PLCB deal.
Props to Lew for wanting to abolish the PLCB. 100% agree

]]> By: slowdown http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60272 slowdown Fri, 13 Mar 2009 04:28:08 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60272 Plcb should just go away. Is there anyway we could band together and do away with it?! Unite! Dont eat at Garces/starr restaurants either. Plcb should just go away. Is there anyway we could band together and do away with it?!

Unite! Dont eat at Garces/starr restaurants either.

]]> By: Marty B. http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60269 Marty B. Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:32:28 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60269 Yep.... Derbystinks, got a clue yet? Yep….

Derbystinks, got a clue yet?

]]> By: Heather http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60267 Heather Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:01:27 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60267 Just read Lew's response. 100% in agreement. Enough said. Just read Lew’s response. 100% in agreement. Enough said.

]]> By: Foobooz http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60260 Foobooz Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:03:47 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60260 For those who are interested, Lew Bryson has weighed in on his <a href="http://noplcb.blogspot.com/2009/03/phillymag-has-web-original-article-up.html" title="Why The PLCB Should Be Abolished" rel="nofollow"> site. For those who are interested, Lew Bryson has weighed in on his site.

]]> By: Lew Bryson http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60247 Lew Bryson Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:59:43 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60247 Heather, this is up on my schedule, but right now I'm just pissed out of my mind about the PLCB's 'charm school' contract with the consulting firm run by their regional manager's husband... I'll get to Garces tomorrow. Unbelievable. This is worse than the automated, teleoperated wine kiosks. Heather, this is up on my schedule, but right now I’m just pissed out of my mind about the PLCB’s ‘charm school’ contract with the consulting firm run by their regional manager’s husband… I’ll get to Garces tomorrow. Unbelievable. This is worse than the automated, teleoperated wine kiosks.

]]> By: rory http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60241 rory Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:26:40 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60241 marty-- yes, it doesn't need to get to the point i'm expressing to be a problem. It's that logical inevitability that makes it even more problematic than this first inequity. A permit (or even an open-bid process at the very least with a structured set of rules) would be far better than dropping it quietly like this with partner(s) already lined up. however, that'd still be an expensive method of opening boutiques--a method that would continue to be bad for the customer (who pays for this absurd bureaucracy? the wine drinker). I'm not at all mad at garces for the ingenuity, and i'll probably buy wine @ that store (spanish wine is a favorite of mine), but this reeks of a dinosaur (PLCB) trying to evolve. get hit with a meteor and go extinct instead (to overextend the analogy). marty–

yes, it doesn’t need to get to the point i’m expressing to be a problem. It’s that logical inevitability that makes it even more problematic than this first inequity. A permit (or even an open-bid process at the very least with a structured set of rules) would be far better than dropping it quietly like this with partner(s) already lined up. however, that’d still be an expensive method of opening boutiques–a method that would continue to be bad for the customer (who pays for this absurd bureaucracy? the wine drinker).

I’m not at all mad at garces for the ingenuity, and i’ll probably buy wine @ that store (spanish wine is a favorite of mine), but this reeks of a dinosaur (PLCB) trying to evolve. get hit with a meteor and go extinct instead (to overextend the analogy).

]]> By: derbystinks http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60239 derbystinks Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:52:13 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60239 Brilliant Marty B - You think you are gonna get a dime from the PLCB? ? They may have the most powerful lawyers this side of the tobacco industry. Good luck seeing a courtroom for years. Can everyone just shut up with all this panty pissing talk about lawyers and fairness. SOMEONE has to be 1st so it might as well be Garces. Others will soon be doing the same thing. Not really a big deal .Great wine in a convenient location that will actually have atmosphere and service is welcome in my world. Pennsylvania is in the dark ages as far convenience and selection compared to the other 49 states. I come from California and I literally was shocked when i went to my 1st PLCB store. Hooray Hooray to this news!!! Brilliant Marty B – You think you are gonna get a dime from the PLCB? ? They may have the most powerful lawyers this side of the tobacco industry. Good luck seeing a courtroom for years.
Can everyone just shut up with all this panty pissing talk about lawyers and fairness. SOMEONE has to be 1st so it might as well be Garces. Others will soon be doing the same thing. Not really a big deal .Great wine in a convenient location that will actually have atmosphere and service is welcome in my world.
Pennsylvania is in the dark ages as far convenience and selection compared to the other 49 states. I come from California and I literally was shocked when i went to my 1st PLCB store. Hooray Hooray to this news!!!

]]> By: Marty B. http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60236 Marty B. Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:03:50 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60236 Tim, I don't think the PLCB should be just able pick and choose partners that are in fact competitive with businesses affected by the existing regulatory framework set up by the PLCB. At minimum, the only right way I see this done is should simply creating a new permit category which will allow businesses to "partner" as "boutiques". Tim, I don’t think the PLCB should be just able pick and choose partners that are in fact competitive with businesses affected by the existing regulatory framework set up by the PLCB. At minimum, the only right way I see this done is should simply creating a new permit category which will allow businesses to “partner” as “boutiques”.

]]> By: Marty B. http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60235 Marty B. Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:00:36 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60235 Rory, yes, but the state giving one restaurateur the ability to de facto violate a law all other restaurateurs are stuck with stinks well before favorites are played on account of political convictions. The PLCB can't just make up "arrangements" or new classes of business that apply to one golden boy. The only fair thing I see being done here is turning Philadelphia into an experimental zone where all interested players (DiBruno's, Tria, etc.) can play in this system too. In fact, if I was lawyer with PLCB and biz-law savvy, I'd be forming a class action suit or assembling plaintiffs to pursue an injunction against Garces and the PLCB as soon as this hit the press. Rory, yes, but the state giving one restaurateur the ability to de facto violate a law all other restaurateurs are stuck with stinks well before favorites are played on account of political convictions. The PLCB can’t just make up “arrangements” or new classes of business that apply to one golden boy. The only fair thing I see being done here is turning Philadelphia into an experimental zone where all interested players (DiBruno’s, Tria, etc.) can play in this system too. In fact, if I was lawyer with PLCB and biz-law savvy, I’d be forming a class action suit or assembling plaintiffs to pursue an injunction against Garces and the PLCB as soon as this hit the press.

]]> By: tim http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60234 tim Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:53:55 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60234 I just read the Philly Mag report and it notes that the PLCB will be partnering "with notable chefs and restaurateurs to open a handful of boutique wine stores" -- meaning that Garces' store won't be the only one. Here's hoping that the Tria folks and Marc Vetri & Jeff Benjamin will get in on the action too. I just read the Philly Mag report and it notes that the PLCB will be partnering “with notable chefs and restaurateurs to open a handful of boutique wine stores” — meaning that Garces’ store won’t be the only one. Here’s hoping that the Tria folks and Marc Vetri & Jeff Benjamin will get in on the action too.

]]> By: tim http://foobooz.com/2009/03/garces-in-bed-with-plcb/comment-page-1/#comment-60233 tim Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:48:40 +0000 http://foobooz.com/?p=7590#comment-60233 Jose Andres has something similar at his Jaleo branch in Crystal City, VA. Jose Andres has something similar at his Jaleo branch in Crystal City, VA.

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